” she *is* quite clear about when you are in a relationship with a man that is sexually exclusive and you want a commitment from him, you should circular date but leave him if he wants to do the same.” and…

“But if he wants to date other people, that is not about a commitment to you”

Here’s my issue. If you are giving him space to decide about a commitment then that is great. Also in that time frame circular dating while he decides is also great. But leaving him for doing the same thing you are doing is not. That is a double standard and you don’t really know if it is about a committment to you or not. He could just be remaining open to the possiblity of another potential partner like you are. Thats what the space reveals. If you are dating others and the guy knows (which he should) but he “in your mind should not be” then that is a problem and the point of the post. A guy who thinks highly of himself would not sit around and “ponder and decide” while the girl he was dating goes off and dates other guys.

Does this make sense?

It makes more sense in this concept. You’re doing it to give him “space” to decide about a commitment. But if he wants to date other people, that is not about a commitment to you.

“It feels controlling to allow or not allow a man to do something. Actually it feels kind of disgusting the way I’m imagining it now. Looking at a relationship that way is turning me off right now.”

I am right there with you

“Yet he’s totally ALLOWED to do it. I just don’t like it and I won’t tolerate feeling bad.

This feels confusing. It’s a small shift of perspective.”
Yea it kind of does. I personally wouldn’t deal with anything that doesn’t feel right. I probably wouldn’t go the “hear no evil see no evil” part because thats an easy way to get hurt feel intensely insecure. I have had extensive experience with someone being like that with me and until I was able to trust that she could handle all of my “evils” she was extremely insecure and it caused a lot of problems. It wasn’t until she could handle my brutal truths that she got the security that she needed from me. I would either be open to it or not.

“Terrance your perspective feels like the perspective of a “open-relationship” between these two people, however casual.”

Well for the scope of this post I would say that it is more about being fair with no double standards. but you know me and you know I am much more into the poly life than the mono life. It helps both parties to be open completely to do whatever the other person is doing. And to have honesty with it.

Thanks for posting again and I look forward to hearing more from you

“Where I see an issue is only ALLOWING a man to date one woman while she goes and dates other men.”

Allowing feels weird here, as if a parent is in charge of a child, rather than 2 adults. Everyone is Always allowed to do what they want (even though they may choose to see themselves not in a codependent kind of situation).

It feels controlling to allow or not allow a man to do something. Actually it feels kind of disgusting the way I’m imagining it now. Looking at a relationship that way is turning me off right now.

Any man has a right to do whatever. That doesn’t mean a woman would like it. Same goes for the woman, and that’s where the “claiming” part comes in. Because the woman doesn’t put herself in a situation of needing to “be allowed” to do something like date other men, the man who wants her is eventually, if he wants her to himself, going to be put in the position of Do I Leave Her Alone … or… do I do soemthing to make sure she is mine and only mine Claim Her.

So he makes that decision.

He is free to walk away.

But some men may want that woman more than they want to walk away.

***

As far as a man dating more than one woman, that’s totally up to him. As long as I don’t feel bad, then I won’t be paying attention to that (how would I know?). What would it matter?

I don’t like hearing about other women, or feeling like there’s other women in the picture… yeah that’s TRUE. If it comes up I will most likely feel unsafe and turned off. I may even feel so bad that I will choose not to date him anymore.

Yet he’s totally ALLOWED to do it. I just don’t like it and I won’t tolerate feeling bad.

This feels confusing. It’s a small shift of perspective.

Terrance your perspective feels like the perspective of a “open-relationship” between these two people, however casual. Where they talk about and set boundaries on the relationship, like who’s allowed what etc.

In my perspective, it’s about Me. Does it feel good? ok I am open to it – he may be seeing millions of other women… the main question is still DOES IT FEEL GOOD. Does it feel bad? ok I don’t like it, I don’t want it in my life. And so far I DON’T LIKE hearing about other women, feeling like im not the only one, etc.

If I were to hear about other women and feel good about it, well I guess I would say… wow I love hearing about you dating other women… that feels really good…

and that would be great. But so far it doesn’t feel good and I don’t like it.

Just my personal thing.

Hmm… wondering if maybe a bisexual woman would like it more (or more often)…

Thanks for posting. “If both parties are fearless enough to voice their feelings despite any fears that may linger, and they both choose to explore their mutual attraction further, then I feel the circular dating should cease aside from the unavoidable random encounters such as in the market or coffee shop as I mentioned above.”

If monogamy is your intention then yes I agree 100% here. I think that is a more than fair situation.

“You know I believe in monogamy as does my partner. I know this is not your choice. Both are valid. Both are workable as long as the there are no secrets and as long as NO ONE is being hurt in either arrangements whatever configuration they may have”

I appreciate your openess here. And once again we are in agreement here as well.

I love seeing you here

To be honest I don’t really use the term alpha and beta because they have to many mixed definitions associated with them. Especially in the PUA community. I just used it because you did and I figured it would make sense to you. I wasn’t talking short term either. Yes the romantic dream to have a man volumtarily change for women is pretty prevelent. That voluntary change that you describe is something that I think is a big reason why monogamous relationships fail. Why? becasuse it isn’t really who they are. Its how they changed to please women. Otherwise they would have been that way in the first place and therefore would not have to change in order to make her feel special in some way. It would just happen.

Im also not saying that this is the only way either as I know confident men who actually want to go for the real romantic dream themselves. In that case I don’t think they change as you descibed it., its who they really are. They were being authentic is this case and wanted it for themselves first and then created it.

The casual dating part only speeds up the process in which 2 people of a higher self-confidence come together that are not trying to change each other and CHOOSE that lifestyle together. It’s not the only way though. Monogamy is not the only way for a “long term” strategy either, but thats a completely different post all together

But it goes counter to what women are also looking for: a “long-term” mating strategy. The real romantic dream women have is of an alpha who voluntarily goes beta for *her*. The lover who gives it all up and becomes the provider, validating that she is special in some way, not just one of a harem of mLTRs or a single pearl in a long string of targets.

I’ve found alphas who’ve done just that. But not by casual dating as you describe it.

Thanks for posting I don’t know if what you wrote resonates with me as I have been truely “into” women and have gone your route and put up with things that I didn’t neccessarily want instead of being true to what was genuinely right and fair to me. The result was I ended up coming off needy because I putting up with “it” (whatever that may be) to please her because I was into her. Otherwise it wouldn’t be “putting up with it” It wouldn’t register that way to me. Somebody beta would do that and doesn’t make him smart. You see women aren’t the only ones with boundaries even if we are the pursuers. I sincerely believe that men that have an abundance mentality and high self-confidence would not go for it, because of his authenticity to himself over pleasing a woman or putting up with it no matter how into her he was. Thanks again for posting here and I am looking forward to hear more from you