This one is more for the women than the men, but men should read this in case they get put in this situation. For those of you who don’t know, the concept of circular dating is when you basically date multiple people with the idea that eventually somebody will step up and demand your attention consistenly enough to take you off the market. Women do it to not get too attached while trying to find a monogamous partner. Guys do it to to keep our options open. In essense to maintain a sense of freedom while dating.
Before I knew of this term I would just consider this dating around or casually dating and I first heard it on Rori’s blog. I noticed that a lot of the women were being taught to only date men who were not circular dating themselves. My first reaction was “This isn’t fair, I would never go along with a woman being allowed to date other men while I was not.” To me that is the female version of polygamy. I read further and asked questions about why they would advocate that and what I got was that they only want guys who would marry them and do it quick as possible.
Here was Miss Mercedes’ take on it: “If a guy is seeing lots of women, he’s not looking to marry anytime soon. However, if he’s not interested in other women but seriously wants your time, you have a better chance with him. So you date men who are not dating other women. The man who wants all of your time will ask so often you eventually won’t have time for other men either. He will be stepping up. He will be taking you off the market and when he’s ready, he’ll propose. Until that man steps up, you keep dating. You remove guys from your rotation who aren’t interested in you and you alone.”
She also said this: “A lot of Rori’s teaching works really, really well with men who are either introverted or who have low self-esteem. That said it would absolutely not work with a strong, confident man.”
Now I don’t see problem with women looking for guys that want to eventually be married. If thats what you want to create then thats great. Additionally, I don’t see an issue with women wanting a guy to only date you and nobody else either. That’s understandable from the perspective of wanting to get married quickly. Where I see an issue is only allowing a man to date one woman while she goes and dates other men.
I understand why women would want to do that, but in my opinion that doesn’t help their cause, because they would generally be dating men that have a lower level of self-confidence than someone that was dating several women. I say generally because there are some men who want to get married and settle down and are tired of putting the effort into dating more than one woman. Typically those guys are dating more than one girl and will be more likely to cut down to one as soon as possible. So these guys wouldn’t be in that pool of guys that would go along with it either.
It doesn’t help a guy’s self-confidence either. A lot of times that would aid to a needy vibe that he may put off because he has no other options for women around him. He will become extremely invested very quickly in women, which will turn women off and then he is left with nothing; or he may act like he’s not needy and act unavailable which comes off as inauthentic and women lose attraction for him as well. All in all usually a bad cycle for him to be in. Men in this scenario tend to have a scarcity mindset. In other words they do not yet believe that they can attract anybody or anything in life that they want. They don’t feel like they can create the relationship or life that they want so they settle.
To guys that have a higher level of self-confidence, this model of dating just would not be acceptable by most standards. He would either already be dating and may want to settle down, in which case he would except nothing less than for the woman to only be dating him as well or he would be dating other women at the same time. There would be no reason for him to stop dating other women regardless of if he really liked her and wanted to commit or not if she’s dating other men. And, this is if monogamy is really what he wants. I don’t really see any other way around it. Even if I really wanted a mongamous relationship (which right now i’m convinced that I don’t) with a woman that I really cared for and wanted to settle down and she told me that she was seeing other people until I step up and propose: I don’t care how she said it, I wouldn’t go for it.
However, if monogamy is what you are looking for there is a slight modification to this model that I feel would improve the chances of two people with much higher self-confidence/esteem meeting, connecting, and settle down together much more happily. That is simply allowing for both partners to date other people with no resentment or jealousy. That helps both parties have an abundance mentality. They both have options and they CHOOSE to be with each other. Not one having options while the other seems to be almost trapped. Thats what I would feel like anyway. This goes both ways, unless both partners are fully open and ok with polygamy (not polyamory) then you should not force anybody into it.
{ 16 comments… read them below or add one }
You are absolutely right with your comments Terrance.
It is absolutely fine for women to have their own way of relating to other problem. But then, how are they increasing their chances of having a quality partner if they start off the RS with a possessive frame. Oh I am sorry, I thought they wanted a partner, instead they want to have a title “wife”…
Good post T-Nut. I picked up a couple things from it :0) I am one of those guys that does like to keep his options open. I am on my quest to find that woman who I want to be around all the time. I know it will happen, but for now I will continue to grow and get stronger.
Hey Terrance: Let me start off by saying this is an excellent article! I would like to help clarify a few things though…just so there are no misunderstandings about what is being taught by Rori.
“Even if I really wanted a mongamous relationship (which right now i’m convinced that I don’t) with a woman that I really cared for and wanted to settle down and she told me that she was seeing other people until I step up and propose: I don’t care how she said it, I wouldn’t go for it.”
As you know, I don’t circular date (in the sense of actually “dating” – circular dating goes much, much deeper than what you’ve written about here) and when I did, I WANTED the men to date other women because I didn’t want the pressure of getting into a relationship. But, I wanted to let you know, if a woman were to be doing this with/to you, “how” she would probably say it.
The key to any relationship is honesty and openness. This woman would be taught to let you know exactly what she is looking for. She would be open and upfront about the fact that she is looking for a husband and she isn’t interested in falling into the girlfriend trap (where a she is dating a man for the rest of her life and he’s not interested in marrying her but he isn’t exactly being honest about that. No proposal – no matter how many times a man tells you he wants to marry you – is complete until you have set a date and are buying the flowers). Men who aren’t interested in becoming her husband (or who don’t want to get married to anyone anytime soon) will most likely take themselves out of her rotation as soon as they hear that word “husband”…she’s not going to have to do it for him and she’s not going to “trap” him.
“This goes both ways, unless both partners are fully open and ok with polygamy (not polyamory) then you should not force anybody into it.”
Nobody is forcing anything. Men have the freedom to leave at any time and from the perspective of the woman who is circular dating, if they don’t want to stick it out…if they are not that man who is going to step up, then their leaving is a good thing. She won’t be losing any sleep because she already has more men in her rotation and more than likely already has a date for Friday night.
Also, there are a lot of degrees of circular dating…Rori teaches to always be sexually exclusive (although some women choose not to be, that isn’t what is being taught – she does not advocate “sleeping around”) and if you are dating someone special and the two of you are exclusive and you don’t want to date other men, you are taught how to “date yourself” and how to simply be open to flirting and having conversations with men, to meeting them and enjoying their conversation and company (without going to dinner and a movie). It is, at this point, about not closing off your heart, your mind or your options and instead, allowing the experiences of the world in so that you do not end up pinning your hopes on one man who isn’t stepping up to give you your dream. Many times, a woman will begin circular dating in the sense that they are actually going out on dates with lots of men, but when she finds herself growing closer to one of them (but they aren’t at marriage level quite yet), she will evolve that circular dating into what I’ve described above. She’ll be open to others and to the thought that some other man she meets might just be the one, but she won’t actually be going out on dates with other men.
Anyway…just some clarification, but…from my perspective…this is all good for the men too.
Much Love,
Mercedes
Radek- Thanks for posting. I have met people that can make that frame work and thats great for them as I don’t believe there is only one way to do it. Its just not my way
Timmy-it sounds like you are on the right path. If you remain open eventually you will find what you want
MM- “I WANTED the men to date other women because I didn’t want the pressure of getting into a relationship”
I like this and as you already know you were the one who helped me with understanding this so thanks again for the clarification this gave more of a conprehensive view on it.
Terrance,
hahahahaha.
ok, now that’s out of the way …
I see circular dating or whatever we want to call it as a PERMANENT situation, even if we have one partner who is our primary life purpose partner.
and btw in the new world, I predict that any partnership that is not a “life purpose” partnership is not going to make it, but that’s a longer comment.
Being open to everyone is for men AND women. The more fear we all let go of, the better our relationships will be.
Fuck marriage! To commit to only one person is to deny our connection to the All that Is. That’s why it doesn’t really work.
“All of your relationships are total commitments, and do not conflict with each other in any way.”
- Erika
It’s really quite simple. Only a man who was truly “into me” would put up with it. That doesn’t make him beta. That makes him smart.
Aldonza,
Thanks for posting
I don’t know if what you wrote resonates with me as I have been truely “into” women and have gone your route and put up with things that I didn’t neccessarily want instead of being true to what was genuinely right and fair to me. The result was I ended up coming off needy because I putting up with “it” (whatever that may be) to please her because I was into her. Otherwise it wouldn’t be “putting up with it” It wouldn’t register that way to me. Somebody beta would do that and doesn’t make him smart. You see women aren’t the only ones with boundaries even if we are the pursuers. I sincerely believe that men that have an abundance mentality and high self-confidence would not go for it, because of his authenticity to himself over pleasing a woman or putting up with it no matter how into her he was. Thanks again for posting here and I am looking forward to hear more from you
I get what you’re saying. The whole “alpha” thing is really intended to prey on a woman’s inherent desire for strong genes. The “short-term” mating strategy, as it is called in the anthropological psychology books. It’s the basis of all things PUA.
But it goes counter to what women are also looking for: a “long-term” mating strategy. The real romantic dream women have is of an alpha who voluntarily goes beta for *her*. The lover who gives it all up and becomes the provider, validating that she is special in some way, not just one of a harem of mLTRs or a single pearl in a long string of targets.
I’ve found alphas who’ve done just that. But not by casual dating as you describe it.
Aldonza-
To be honest I don’t really use the term alpha and beta because they have to many mixed definitions associated with them. Especially in the PUA community. I just used it because you did and I figured it would make sense to you. I wasn’t talking short term either. Yes the romantic dream to have a man volumtarily change for women is pretty prevelent. That voluntary change that you describe is something that I think is a big reason why monogamous relationships fail. Why? becasuse it isn’t really who they are. Its how they changed to please women. Otherwise they would have been that way in the first place and therefore would not have to change in order to make her feel special in some way. It would just happen.
Im also not saying that this is the only way either as I know confident men who actually want to go for the real romantic dream themselves. In that case I don’t think they change as you descibed it., its who they really are. They were being authentic is this case and wanted it for themselves first and then created it.
The casual dating part only speeds up the process in which 2 people of a higher self-confidence come together that are not trying to change each other and CHOOSE that lifestyle together. It’s not the only way though. Monogamy is not the only way for a “long term” strategy either, but thats a completely different post all together
I’m so grateful for my spiritual orientation that I no longer worry about genes and mating strategies. It feels so much more relaxing to see people as people and divine spiritual beings.
There is so much here, I hardly know where to begin. Miss M has it mostly right, or really I want to say her explanation of circular dating is mostly right, at least as I see it. I too have never gone this route, have never had to, or maybe I never wanted to.
MY sense of what it means is that it is like causal dating, but it’s not casual sex. Rori is clear on this.
Encounters whether they be a few words in the market or at a coffee shop all the way to an all out and out date are outlets for women through which Rori teaches women how to speak/interact with men in ways they can not only hear and understand, she also shows women better ways to connect to them in meaningful ways. These encounters are also wonderful boosts for their self-confidence, to have men listen, appreciate, even pursue them. Most women in my experience are uncomfortable in their own skin let alone interacting with a man with whom they are unfamiliar. Most women are quite insecure. Roi has developed tools to help them let all of this go and come into their “goddessnesss” which is their birthright. I truly feel what she offers to women is enormously valuable, life saving in some cases.
That said, I too have problems with continuing to circular date when someone piques a woman’s interest more than the others, and the feeling is mutual. Here is where the openness and honesty needs to come in. If both parties are fearless enough to voice their feelings despite any fears that may linger, and they both choose to explore their mutual attraction further, then I feel the circular dating should cease aside from the unavoidable random encounters such as in the market or coffee shop as I mentioned above.
You know I believe in monogamy as does my partner. I know this is not your choice. Both are valid. Both are workable as long as the there are no secrets and as long as NO ONE is being hurt in either arrangements whatever configuration they may have.
I do have to steadfastly disagree with Erika in this,
“To commit to only one person is to deny our connection to the All that Is. That’s why it doesn’t really work.”
I and Miss M and many others like make it work and very, very well, but it’s not work at all. It just IS. There is no effort. The work on self is the hard part. Being together as one, monogamous, profoundly connected is easy, and it’s a joy. It most definitely does not deny our connection to all that is. If anything it strengthens and deepens it.
xo
xxoo
Tinque-
Thanks for posting. “If both parties are fearless enough to voice their feelings despite any fears that may linger, and they both choose to explore their mutual attraction further, then I feel the circular dating should cease aside from the unavoidable random encounters such as in the market or coffee shop as I mentioned above.”
If monogamy is your intention then yes I agree 100% here. I think that is a more than fair situation.
“You know I believe in monogamy as does my partner. I know this is not your choice. Both are valid. Both are workable as long as the there are no secrets and as long as NO ONE is being hurt in either arrangements whatever configuration they may have”
I appreciate your openess here. And once again we are in agreement here as well.
I love seeing you here
Well here’s what sticks out and pokes me about this:
“Where I see an issue is only ALLOWING a man to date one woman while she goes and dates other men.”
Allowing feels weird here, as if a parent is in charge of a child, rather than 2 adults. Everyone is Always allowed to do what they want (even though they may choose to see themselves not in a codependent kind of situation).
It feels controlling to allow or not allow a man to do something. Actually it feels kind of disgusting the way I’m imagining it now. Looking at a relationship that way is turning me off right now.
Any man has a right to do whatever. That doesn’t mean a woman would like it. Same goes for the woman, and that’s where the “claiming” part comes in. Because the woman doesn’t put herself in a situation of needing to “be allowed” to do something like date other men, the man who wants her is eventually, if he wants her to himself, going to be put in the position of Do I Leave Her Alone … or… do I do soemthing to make sure she is mine and only mine Claim Her.
So he makes that decision.
He is free to walk away.
But some men may want that woman more than they want to walk away.
***
As far as a man dating more than one woman, that’s totally up to him. As long as I don’t feel bad, then I won’t be paying attention to that (how would I know?). What would it matter?
I don’t like hearing about other women, or feeling like there’s other women in the picture… yeah that’s TRUE. If it comes up I will most likely feel unsafe and turned off. I may even feel so bad that I will choose not to date him anymore.
Yet he’s totally ALLOWED to do it. I just don’t like it and I won’t tolerate feeling bad.
This feels confusing. It’s a small shift of perspective.
Terrance your perspective feels like the perspective of a “open-relationship” between these two people, however casual. Where they talk about and set boundaries on the relationship, like who’s allowed what etc.
In my perspective, it’s about Me. Does it feel good? ok I am open to it – he may be seeing millions of other women… the main question is still DOES IT FEEL GOOD. Does it feel bad? ok I don’t like it, I don’t want it in my life. And so far I DON’T LIKE hearing about other women, feeling like im not the only one, etc.
If I were to hear about other women and feel good about it, well I guess I would say… wow I love hearing about you dating other women… that feels really good…
and that would be great. But so far it doesn’t feel good and I don’t like it.
Just my personal thing.
Hmm… wondering if maybe a bisexual woman would like it more (or more often)…
Hey Daria
Thanks for posting.
“It feels controlling to allow or not allow a man to do something. Actually it feels kind of disgusting the way I’m imagining it now. Looking at a relationship that way is turning me off right now.”
I am right there with you
“Yet he’s totally ALLOWED to do it. I just don’t like it and I won’t tolerate feeling bad.
This feels confusing. It’s a small shift of perspective.”
Yea it kind of does. I personally wouldn’t deal with anything that doesn’t feel right. I probably wouldn’t go the “hear no evil see no evil” part because thats an easy way to get hurt feel intensely insecure. I have had extensive experience with someone being like that with me and until I was able to trust that she could handle all of my “evils” she was extremely insecure and it caused a lot of problems. It wasn’t until she could handle my brutal truths that she got the security that she needed from me. I would either be open to it or not.
“Terrance your perspective feels like the perspective of a “open-relationship” between these two people, however casual.”
Well for the scope of this post I would say that it is more about being fair with no double standards. but you know me and you know I am much more into the poly life than the mono life. It helps both parties to be open completely to do whatever the other person is doing. And to have honesty with it.
Thanks for posting again and I look forward to hearing more from you
I’ve been giving this one more thought. Rori isn’t as adamant about all the men you’re dating to be only dating you. she *is* quite clear about when you are in a relationship with a man that is sexually exclusive and you want a commitment from him, you should circular date but leave him if he wants to do the same.
It makes more sense in this concept. You’re doing it to give him “space” to decide about a commitment. But if he wants to date other people, that is not about a commitment to you.
Hey Aldonza-
” she *is* quite clear about when you are in a relationship with a man that is sexually exclusive and you want a commitment from him, you should circular date but leave him if he wants to do the same.” and…
“But if he wants to date other people, that is not about a commitment to you”
Here’s my issue. If you are giving him space to decide about a commitment then that is great. Also in that time frame circular dating while he decides is also great. But leaving him for doing the same thing you are doing is not. That is a double standard and you don’t really know if it is about a committment to you or not. He could just be remaining open to the possiblity of another potential partner like you are. Thats what the space reveals. If you are dating others and the guy knows (which he should) but he “in your mind should not be” then that is a problem and the point of the post. A guy who thinks highly of himself would not sit around and “ponder and decide” while the girl he was dating goes off and dates other guys.
Does this make sense?